9.50 - 11.49 Heads Up class

[1fastdeuce]

Who's all in for this class?

[BLUE66]

I'm here.........er there. :spots:

[must85]

if my new crap runs what it is supose to i am in

[1SLO5.0]

too fast for me

[Big Johnson]

Hell yeah Ill do it If I can ever finish the the car, you know I will have slow it down to go 9.50 tough :D

[Greg86z28]

too fast for me

Me too. Where's the 15 second class? That's all this 305 will do.

[kamu]

I'm in

[fastGBcamaro]

Damn it, I will probably have to spray 200 at it just to go 11.49. But f' it, I wanna run with the Big Dogs. Count me in.

[bod89lx]

What if your car is slower than 11.49??

:geek:

[1fastdeuce]

What if your car is slower than 11.49??

:geek:
Then you run the 11.50 and up class.

[1SLO5.0]

What if your car is slower than 11.49??

:geek:


Then you have to run in the slow class with me and Codename 47

[Evil Greg]

What's the point of this? Maybe I missed something in those multi-page cluster☺☺☺☺ threads?

[bod89lx]

Then you have to run in the slow class with me and Codename 47

Is there a 15 second and up class I would rule that class.


:fro: :exactly:

[Joel_91GT]

im in.

[STL2SLO]

I'll have to step it up or I'm gonna end up in the slow turd class.

[Evil Greg]

So nobody's gonna provide any kind of insight about an apparent 2-second difference in ET called a "class"
What's this about? You run heads up with an 11.4 car against a 9.50 car?

Anyone? Hello? Anybody home?

[BLUE66]

So nobody's gonna provide any kind of insight about an apparent 2-second difference in ET called a "class"
What's this about? You run heads up with an 11.4 car against a 9.50 car?

Anyone? Hello? Anybody home?


At this point I think no one really cares as long as it isn't a bracket race. :dunno:

[Evil Greg]

Ok, I had to sift thru a 16-page topic to find this:

I have an interesting Idea. Why don't we just post a date for a race. When you show up we'll give everyone two qualifying runs. Then we'll pair you up based on how you qualify. To keep it fair, you can run no quicker than 0.2 of 0.3 quicker than your quickest qualifying or be disqualified. This applies to the first round only. After that anything goes.
There will be 3 classes.
1. Quicker than 9.50
2. 9.50 to 11.49
3. 11.50 & slower.

If you're caught sand bagging, you'll be moved up a class

Run what you brung. If you get your ass beat then you'll have a month to beg, borrow or steal parts to step up your program, use your credit card, whatever you wish, if anything.

If now one likes it you keep your mouth shut until the day AFTER the race and then we regroup and take the results and refine the race or series or whatever. We're here to race!!!

BTW for all of you that are scared that all these 6.9 sec. 200+ mph cars are going to show up, get serious, they have their own programs to run; Like they have nothing better to do than try to intimidate you. Sounds like some of you have already done that yourself.

Lot of issues here. For example, how does anyone know who won the race at the finish without doing math first? How you going to set the computer to determine the MOV here? Did you really think this thru first? I've never seen where you can index each lane separately in a heads-up race in the Compulink system, it's either a "staggered start bracket race" or a fixed-index heads-up race for BOTH lanes. Unless something has changed that I am not aware of or WIR has some unique timing system where you could run a "dual index" race, this will be a cluster☺☺☺☺ to keep track of, or at the very least there will be a delay in determining who really won. Not exactly the way to have an exciting final round. I just called Ray from GLD to make sure I don't make an ass of myself with this info, he says he has never, ever, in all the years he has run GLD, ever set the Compulink system for a "dual index". I never did in more than 10 years.

So can someone clarify this for me, I don't get it. if I read this like it shows, you have a guy in qualifying who runs a 9.79 best and say a guy who runs a 11.47 best, and you pair them off in a heads-up race, and if either one runs .2 quicker, he loses. So how does the crowd or the other racer figure this out, especially if it's a race decided by hundreths of a second? What about the difference from the tree? Obviously the 9.x car is gonna get to the finish line first in a heads-up, and if he does not redlight, the win light is gonna flash in his lane. How you gonna work this???

I guess I'm going to be seen as whinning now?

As for the index comments, some of you really do not understand Index racing. A "sandbagger" can do that in a bracket race too. How does a good racer combat that? Simple, elementary racing folks. Cut a light and run your race and tune out the jerk doing the "whoopity" in the other lane, that's how.
You have the tree and the index as equalizers. If the "slower guy" cuts a light and can at least cover the cap, index racing can be VERY cool to watch and exciting as well. Where it gets stupid is when guys who know the index and race with a car that is nowhere near the cap are indeed going to be easy meat for a sandbagger. HOWEVER, if your car can cover the cap in the index you race in, than a guy with a car that is 2-seconds faster than you is not going to be able to simply pace you and try to finish first, you can make him breakout and lose. Index racing IMHO is way more exciting and fun to watch that a boring bracket race where a slow turd is pitted against a pro-mod car that waits 5 seconds on the line before going.

Index racing works when all the cars in the class can cover the cap for that class. :clap:

[Evil Greg]

At this point I think no one really cares as long as it isn't a bracket race. :dunno:


Oh, they better care! See above post...

[1SLO5.0]

I say screw the caps, make some classes with rules. Make sure the rules are followed. May the best man win.

[85 CAMARO]

I think the idea was to at least get the program going with more cars in fewer classes instead of just a couple of cars in each class, see how many cars show up and fine tune the program as time goes on. I originally suggested the IMSM format but it's going to be running on a bracket night.

[Evil Greg]

I say screw the caps, make some classes with rules. Make sure the rules are followed. May the best man win.

That's sure gonna be better than what was proposed, I simply can't see how you make that work in "realtime".

[1fastdeuce]

I think the idea was to at least get the program going with more cars in fewer classes instead of just a couple of cars in each class, see how many cars show up and fine tune the program as time goes on. I originally suggested the IMSM format but it's going to be running on a bracket night.

That is exactly what the point is. I agree with Darrell but there wouldn't be any cars showing up.

[Mark302]

The slow guys may show up at first but that won't last long.

[badass88gt]

The slow guys may show up at first but that won't last long.


IF they even show up. How is anyone gonna find out about this event?

Nobody cares about the slow guys. That's their problem.

[fastGBcamaro]

Since we have to squeeze this event into a Sat. bracket event, will we be able to make a qualifying pass or 2 before the eliminations? Hopefully yes. But IF we have a decent turnout of cars I don't think there would be enough time to give us any qualifying passes. Which could make for a good argument to give us our own day in the future.

[1fastdeuce]

There has to be a qualifying pass to set up the ladder.

[bod89lx]

Nobody cares about me.


:cry: :help:

[badass88gt]

There has to be a qualifying pass to set up the ladder.


I would think at least 1 pass, though more would be nice. I doubt we'd see more than 1 on a night when it's combined with the brackets.

[UPdragracer]

:D I don't see why it would really be a big problem for them to add in 2 qualifier passes for this race . :smoker:

[Greg86z28]

Is there any way to do this after an RSD. Well maybe not an RSD, but have a night where for the first half of the night it's like RSD (maybe more like a test and tune), where you just get some runs in, and then the second half of the night is the competition? Maybe that wouldn't work, I don't know.

[fastGBcamaro]

Is there any way to do this after an RSD. Well maybe not an RSD, but have a night where for the first half of the night it's like RSD (maybe more like a test and tune), where you just get some runs in, and then the second half of the night is the competition? Maybe that wouldn't work, I don't know.

I wish WIR would do somthing like this some day. I liked going to the test and tune when they had it on Wed. nights a few years ago. It didnt get that good of a turnout though because it was on a Wed. I wish that WIR could replace one of the Friday night Beat the Heat events with an event like Codename 47 mentioned or even just a straight test and tune. I know that anyone can test and tune on those nights already, but from what I have heard, it is a major cluster f'ck, and you usually don't get the 3 passes that you pay for.

[Greg86z28]

I just think it'd be cool to have a Saturday event starting at 1, run for fun till 7 or so, then competition afterwards. You could charge 20 to run the fun till 7 and pay again if needed for the competition. I don't know how that would work though.

[badass88gt]

lol, WIR Test and Tune....


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v694/unclespellbinder/Animated/beating-a-dead-horse.gif

[Mike@The Race Shop]

When I discussed this with WIR, Roger proposed blending us in with the brackets. We will get two qualifying and eliminations between the bracket rounds. If the program expands and or the turnout is high enough he would start the Saturday program earlier so elimination rounds are at the same time as usual. I think Roger is being very accommodating and would like to see the program succeed. I'd also like to show the other doubters at the track that this can succeed despite them.

[Greg86z28]

When I discussed this with WIR, Roger proposed blending us in with the brackets. We will get two qualifying and eliminations between the bracket rounds. If the program expands and or the turnout is high enough he would start the Saturday program earlier so elimination rounds are at the same time as usual. I think Roger is being very accommodating and would like to see the program succeed. I'd also like to show the other doubters at the track that this can succeed despite them.

So we'd be guaranteed at least four runs then? 2 Qualifying and 2 eliminations? If that's the case, I would come for sure.

[badass88gt]

1 elimination. You lose first round and your done.

[fastGBcamaro]

Maybe I missed it, but I think everyone would get atleast 3 runs. 2 qualifying rounds, and round in the eliminations, or did I miss the post where it isn't single elimination? Either way, I think it should be fun. Any idea on what the entry fee will cost? That beating a dead horse thing was pretty funny.

[Slow Ride]

So can someone clarify this for me, I don't get it. if I read this like it shows, you have a guy in qualifying who runs a 9.79 best and say a guy who runs a 11.47 best, and you pair them off in a heads-up race, and if either one runs .2 quicker, he loses. So how does the crowd or the other racer figure this out, especially if it's a race decided by hundreths of a second?

The race will not be decided by hundreths. It they both run what they ran in qualifying and both cut the same light then tha faster car will win by 1.68 seconds. Thanks for playing slow guy, go sit with the rest of the little dogs.

[Jim]

I thought it was heads up first one to the stripe.................................if you run faster than 9.50 you loose. :dunno:

[Slow Ride]

I thought it was heads up first one to the stripe.................................if you run faster than 9.50 you loose. :dunno:

That's my understanding.

[markstang]

this is just a 1 day, 1 time race/get together that could/can turn into more than a 1 day 1 time event if it has good turnout & sucess.

why not give it a try & see how it goes before it turns into not being worth the time to set it up for the ppl putting fort.
if the event is a sucess it will happen again & can be modified & adjusted to suit the cars that showed up.

IMO the way this is headed it will kill the chance of having the 1st race before the track even opens. the harder it is to orginize, the less of a chance it will happen. nobody has anything to gain from putting on this event.

[Evil Greg]

I give up, I shoulda stayed out of this. Hope you all have fun, hope it works out.

[kamu]

So nobody's gonna provide any kind of insight about an apparent 2-second difference in ET called a "class"
What's this about? You run heads up with an 11.4 car against a 9.50 car?

Anyone? Hello? Anybody home?

Just slow your 11.4 car down a notch and run in the next class.

[Evil Greg]

Just slow your 11.4 car down a notch and run in the next class.

That wasn't the point. I have a car that ran 10.70's with 11Lbs. of boost and a stock shortblock last year that now sports a bigger blower, better intake and a forged, 4-bolt shortblock and a higher stall converter. I'm not afraid of the competition. I was talking about the bigger picture. But when you try to simply point out that some of this is a logistical nightmare as seen by someone who happens to have a little experience on the subject from the operations end of it, and you are labeled a "doubter" for that, it's time to step aside and let things transpire as they will.

I won't even say "I told you so". I promise I won't.

[badass88gt]

I won't even say "I told you so". I promise I won't.


I probably will. :doggy_152

[markstang]

your right Greg, all 3 classes have the same issue in that reguard.
my 8.20 car will be racing 7 sec cars so I'm 1 of the slow guys in my class that has a long shot making it past 1st or 2nd round. but to keep it somewhat simple & not have a page of rule to police per class it almost has to be this way. no matter what, after 1st round 1/2 of the cars will be done racing.

the way cars are paired up to race could be talked about, but in the end not everybody will be happy.

[Mike@The Race Shop]

Ok, I assume we are all in agreement that we can go forward with the three classes for now. Next, comments are welcome on fairness of the 2 second splits in each class and how we pair cars to make it interesting and as fair as possible.

1. Pro ladder - 1 races #16, 2 races #15 3 races #14 etc.
2. Pair cars with the closest et's
or other comments are considered.

What would you guy like to keep it fair?

[1SLO5.0]

I'm still wondering as are other people how this is going to work. Nobody bothered to respond intelligently to Greg's comments. Is this going to be heads up first one to the stripe wins? What about the .2 to .3 break out rule? Is a compulink system even capable of calculating if a 10.40 car in lane one breaks out and a 9.90 car in lane 2 breaks out. Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you mean by the .2 to .3 break out rule. Why even have a cap in each class? That could lead to sandbagging and you can say as much as you want that sandbaggers will be moved to the next class, kicked out, banned, castrated, etc but how will you catch them? I can slow my car down several tenths, if not a full second and you would never catch me. With the technology out there today you don't need to stand on your brakes anymore. Buy a Digital 7 box and that alone will help anyone slow their car down. Put a set of basic, easy to follow and easy to check rules in place and that will index the class for you. Everyone wants to race heads up classes but heads up classes cost a ton more money than being competitive in a bracket class so lets try to think outside the box to make it fair for everyone. Make sure someone has some scales to weigh cars too. I think weight is a big deal. I also think interior pieces such as dashboards and seats are big deals. People with gutted race cars aren't going to go thru the hassle of putting dashboards and seats in just for one race. Tire size and composition is another big one. I think if there are restrictions that will slow faster cars down but not effect cars that are not as fast (like tire size and composition) it will make things alot closer and more interesting. These are just some ideas.

I wasn't at the Street Car Shootout but I was told by many people that the cars were not checked for rules compliance and there wasn't even a cruise. I don't know how true this is but if that's the case this will never work. If there are rules in place they must be enforced.

[STL2SLO]

I say pair the cars with the closest ET's. I think more people will show this way.

[1SLO5.0]

I say pair the cars with the closest ET's. I think more people will show this way.


I agree. Make it a drivers race.

[markstang]

whats it cost to rent a low profile drive on scale for 1 day? not sure you can rent something like that.





I'm all for using the drive tire size as the main rule between each class.

[YAV8]

Make it 2 simple rules Rule 1 Don't go RED Rule 2 run as close to your index with out going under. I don't think anyone cares if you can slow you car down .70 or pick it up. If the win light comes on in your lane, your going to the next round. It dosent need a head liner or a back seat or wipers its only a platform to go from A to B with the best driver not the most money. ALL SAFTY RULES INEFECT for your class.

[Mike@The Race Shop]

Well, I guess some answers are in order for some of the questions asked. We are trying to evaluate all the input from you guys to find some common ground. There are a lot of ideas, pros and cons presented over the last few months.
What it comes down to is this. There is no way I can find to appease everyone. If we do this truly heads up, the slower guy will loose most of the time. He will have to spend a lot of money and time to compete. If we run it heads up with classes at the proposed 2 second intervals, 2 seconds is too much to make up yet and the slow car again will usually loose. We have had a lot of support for this knowing they will probably be the slower car and probably loose. This will work for fun for 1 race maybe, but no one want to continually pay knowing they will loose. At least not too many times. If we race one race to see how it fall out we could do that.
Greg and others pointed out some valid problems we agree with. We have been discussing as many ways to make it completely heads up, and fair for all, and believe that unless someone does not mind loosing all the time, this will not work. I don't think the majority of racers have the resources to spend what it takes to make this fully heads up without too many rules and still be fair.
If we run this on 1 sec indexes there may not be enough cars to run each class to make it worth while.
So there is nothing carved in stone and we will accept comments and suggestions and want to make this work with fairness to all. We will rethink this and start over with the information we have. Thanks, and keep up the suggestions, I'm sure we can find something that will fit.

[fastGBcamaro]

Since we are trying to attract as many racers as possible, and I think we can all agree that there wont be many, if any 13 sec. + cars in this event. What if we just added one more class that went along with the 2 second intervals and had a 13.5 and slower class. I think you might be able to attract a bunch of the import/ 4 cylinder guys to race in this class. I know we don't want to have too many classes, but this might drastically increase the turnout. And I wouldnt be surprised if that class had the highest turnout with the proper advertising.
For the first time I think it should probably just be the given indexs and the first to the stripe wins as long as you don't go under the index. We will just have to deal with the sand baggers if we have them. We can always make adjustments after the first one.
I like pairing the cars up with a car similar in time. I think this would make it a lot more interesting for the fans, and could consequently even the playing field a bit. See my example below. I realize that this is all completely hypothetical, but you have to admit that having an upset between cars that are close in time is a pretty good possibility. For example, if we had 8 cars in the 9.5-11.49 class. ( EDIT: I appologize for how this bracket looks, it didn't come out the same way that I typed it origonally, but hopefully you guys get the point.)
Car 1 9.5
> Car 2 Wins
Car 2 9.65
Car 3 9.9 > 9.9 Car wins
> Car 3 Wins
Car 4 10.0
Car 5 10.1
> Car 6 Wins
Car 6 10.3 > 10.5 Car wins
Car 7 10.5
> Car 7 Wins
Car 8 10.8

So, in this circumstance we have a 10.5 racing a 9.9 car for the championship. Odds are that the 9.9 car is going to win, but who would have ever given the 10.5 car a chance to even make it that far. I think pairing cars up with similar times atleast gives the slower guys a slightly higher chance of making it several rounds.

[1SLO5.0]

Well, I guess some answers are in order for some of the questions asked. We are trying to evaluate all the input from you guys to find some common ground. There are a lot of ideas, pros and cons presented over the last few months.
What it comes down to is this. There is no way I can find to appease everyone. If we do this truly heads up, the slower guy will loose most of the time. He will have to spend a lot of money and time to compete. If we run it heads up with classes at the proposed 2 second intervals, 2 seconds is too much to make up yet and the slow car again will usually loose. We have had a lot of support for this knowing they will probably be the slower car and probably loose. This will work for fun for 1 race maybe, but no one want to continually pay knowing they will loose. At least not too many times. If we race one race to see how it fall out we could do that.
Greg and others pointed out some valid problems we agree with. We have been discussing as many ways to make it completely heads up, and fair for all, and believe that unless someone does not mind loosing all the time, this will not work. I don't think the majority of racers have the resources to spend what it takes to make this fully heads up without too many rules and still be fair.
If we run this on 1 sec indexes there may not be enough cars to run each class to make it worth while.
So there is nothing carved in stone and we will accept comments and suggestions and want to make this work with fairness to all. We will rethink this and start over with the information we have. Thanks, and keep up the suggestions, I'm sure we can find something that will fit.


Hey Mike, I love racing whether I win or lose. I don't race for the money or winning, I race because that is my hobby. The car I have now probably won't be very competetive but I will come to support this either way as long as my schedule permits. I think alot of guys feel the same way. Alot of us have been looking for some heads up racing for a long time. I don't think the ET range of our cars is that far apart either if you can get an honest ET out of everyone. I'd like to see this work some how.

[1SLO5.0]

Since we are trying to attract as many racers as possible, and I think we can all agree that there wont be many, if any 13 sec. + cars in this event. What if we just added one more class that went along with the 2 second intervals and had a 13.5 and slower class. I think you might be able to attract a bunch of the import/ 4 cylinder guys to race in this class. I know we don't want to have too many classes, but this might drastically increase the turnout. And I wouldnt be surprised if that class had the highest turnout with the proper advertising.
For the first time I think it should probably just be the given indexs and the first to the stripe wins as long as you don't go under the index. We will just have to deal with the sand baggers if we have them. We can always make adjustments after the first one.
I like pairing the cars up with a car similar in time. I think this would make it a lot more interesting for the fans, and could consequently even the playing field a bit. See my example below. I realize that this is all completely hypothetical, but you have to admit that having an upset between cars that are close in time is a pretty good possibility. For example, if we had 8 cars in the 9.5-11.49 class. ( EDIT: I appologize for how this bracket looks, it didn't come out the same way that I typed it origonally, but hopefully you guys get the point.)
Car 1 9.5
> Car 2 Wins
Car 2 9.65
Car 3 9.9 > 9.9 Car wins
> Car 3 Wins
Car 4 10.0
Car 5 10.1
> Car 6 Wins
Car 6 10.3 > 10.5 Car wins
Car 7 10.5
> Car 7 Wins
Car 8 10.8

So, in this circumstance we have a 10.5 racing a 9.9 car for the championship. Odds are that the 9.9 car is going to win, but who would have ever given the 10.5 car a chance to even make it that far. I think pairing cars up with similar times atleast gives the slower guys a slightly higher chance of making it several rounds.


I was thinking about that too. Pair up the cars with the similar ETs in each class starting with the slowest cars and let them duke it out. The fastest car doesn't always win in heads up racing, anyone who watches Pro Stock knows that.

[Randy S]

Mike, how many cars do you feel there should be in the classes to make it worthwhile? You know if a driver doesn't have a car that fits one of the, I'll call "headline" classes he could take the inituitive to put together his own class, ie. if he runs 12.30's, find another 5 or 7 guys that are in the 12.00 to 12.50 or 13.00 et range. This way it makes the the drivers responsible for "filling" the field and showng support of this program.

[Mike@The Race Shop]

Hi Darrell, I like heads up also and love racing. This is the format I originally imagined. I additionally added the penalty of .2 - .3 to help even up things. This was tied to qualifying. Meaning you get 2 qualifying, but during first round eliminations you could not run quicker by more that the .2 or .3 under your qualifying. As Greg pointed out, who's going to know who won at the stripe until you do the math and who's going to keep track of it. I was thinking the computer system could handle it similar to an index system with dial under. From Greg's knowledge and experience I'm sure this is not the case. This was the equalizing factor the help eliminate the sandbaggers. Just wishful thinking. A nightmare to implement and administer. There have been quite a few people say the liked the concept like outlined above and would still race thinking they may not have a chance to win. I think that shows enough interest in heads up racing to start with. Some asked for an additional et, such as 10.50 thinking there may be enough cars in that range to make it very competitive. I think we would need to get a firm count like advance registration to determine the car count in advance so we and the track could prepare. If there is a large turnout, it may cause problems, parking, staging etc. I did believe it could work, but go back and forth with it. The last couple of posts kinda makes me think is could again. We have had discussions about actual index racing like super comp and super gas, but I think it's too much like bracket racing to differentiate the difference. So we are again looking to make sure it's what most racers here want. Heads up or Index???? I myself still would like heads up, but it can can get lopsided and expensive. What do you guys think?

[1fastdeuce]

I think we would need to get a firm count like advance registration to determine the car count in advance so we and the track could prepare.

:exactly:That is why I started this thread and out of 6 pages of shit I see 8 cars willing to run. I figured if people had some comments they could have used the following thread http://www.wisconsinstreetdominators.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11290
and kept this one just for people to say if they were actually going to run the 9.50 - 11.50 class.

[BLUE66]

:exactly:That is why I started this thread and out of 6 pages of shit I see 8 cars willing to run. .


That's about how many people showed up for the street car shootout.
Unfortunately, I expect we will see the same results here. :dunno:

[Slow Ride]

I have no bars in my car so I will be running with the other slow guys in the 11.50 and slower class.

[superhawkman]

I appreciate the effort being put forth to get a program like this started. I think that a lot of good suggestions have been made. Bottom line is that you can't please everyone. I'm one of the slow guys but I still want to compete in a heads-up type event at WIR. The more rules we have the more people will be turned away. Keep it simple at first and build on the success and learn from the failures.

[Mike@The Race Shop]

Mike, how many cars do you feel there should be in the classes to make it worthwhile? You know if a driver doesn't have a car that fits one of the, I'll call "headline" classes he could take the inituitive to put together his own class, ie. if he runs 12.30's, find another 5 or 7 guys that are in the 12.00 to 12.50 or 13.00 et range. This way it makes the the drivers responsible for "filling" the field and showng support of this program.
Hi Randy, if all goes well with the first race, we plan on opening up other classes like you asked about. A lot will depend on how orderly it comes off on race day/night and if it disrupts the bracket program or not. As we are blending in with the brackets at first, we need to show we are sincere and can do it in an orderly manor. We will get extra races then if all goes well. Once we know how the blend works then we can figure out how to work in more cars and classes if needed.

Prior to the first race we will create a sign up sheet of some kind and probably advance registration to firm up the car count. We are not going to screw around with this like the Wisconsin Fastest Street Car deal and not have anyone show up. That will kill all possibilities for a program.

[72NOVA]

QUOTE=1SLO5.0]I'm still wondering as are other people how this is going to work. Nobody bothered to respond intelligently to Greg's comments. Is this going to be heads up first one to the stripe wins? What about the .2 to .3 break out rule? Is a compulink system even capable of calculating if a 10.40 car in lane one breaks out and a 9.90 car in lane 2 breaks out. Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you mean by the .2 to .3 break out rule. Why even have a cap in each class? That could lead to sandbagging and you can say as much as you want that sandbaggers will be moved to the next class, kicked out, banned, castrated, etc but how will you catch them? I can slow my car down several tenths, if not a full second and you would never catch me. With the technology out there today you don't need to stand on your brakes anymore. Buy a Digital 7 box and that alone will help anyone slow their car down. Put a set of basic, easy to follow and easy to check rules in place and that will index the class for you. Everyone wants to race heads up classes but heads up classes cost a ton more money than being competitive in a bracket class so lets try to think outside the box to make it fair for everyone. Make sure someone has some scales to weigh cars too. I think weight is a big deal. I also think interior pieces such as dashboards and seats are big deals. People with gutted race cars aren't going to go thru the hassle of putting dashboards and seats in just for one race. Tire size and composition is another big one. I think if there are restrictions that will slow faster cars down but not effect cars that are not as fast (like tire size and composition) it will make things alot closer and more interesting. These are just some ideas.

I wasn't at the Street Car Shootout but I was told by many people that the cars were not checked for rules compliance and there wasn't even a cruise. I don't know how true this is but if that's the case this will never work. If there are rules in place they must be enforced.[/QUOTE]




I was at the street car shoot out at wir and your right no one checked my car for any of the rules . It was the first time that Roger and Danny tried this and i'm sure they were just happy a few cars showed up . I do know that there was a cruise i'm not sure on the total miles but should of been close to 30 . I drove my car on it (full exhaust,dot tires,pump gas, and 4:56 pro gears) and had no problems. It was a god time i lost in round two to a blue 66 chevlle but had fun . I will race that event again but will not compete in anything that Mike H. has something to do with sorry Mike you cant bash the racers and expect us to support your event. I'll be bracket racing or my junk can sit in my garage.

Craig Huss
black 72 Nova

[1SLO5.0]

I was at the street car shoot out at wir and your right no one checked my car for any of the rules . It was the first time that Roger and Danny tried this and i'm sure they were just happy a few cars showed up . I do know that there was a cruise i'm not sure on the total miles but should of been close to 30 . I drove my car on it (full exhaust,dot tires,pump gas, and 4:56 pro gears) and had no problems. It was a god time i lost in round two to a blue 66 chevlle but had fun . I will race that event again but will not compete in anything that Mike H. has something to do with sorry Mike you cant bash the racers and expect us to support your event. I'll be bracket racing or my junk can sit in my garage.

Craig Huss
black 72 Nova

This was actually the second year that there was a street car shoot out. The first year was a total flop because the guy that was going to organize it waited until the week before to do anything. It sucks that the rule weren't followed. That pretty much leaves every class an anything goes class which defeats the purpose of rules and separate classes. Hopefully the next one will be better managed.

I'm not quite sure what you mean by Mike bashing the racers. Did I miss something?

[1fastdeuce]

Realistically I don't see the difference if the car is checked or not unless you win and somebody contests it.

[1fastdeuce]

I'm not quite sure what you mean by Mike bashing the racers. Did I miss something?

I must have missed it also. :dunno:

[Joel_91GT]

I'm not quite sure what you mean by Mike bashing the racers. Did I miss something?
a few of the members on wir's forum took offence to a post that mike made there, im sure thats what he's refering to D.

[Mike@The Race Shop]

Read and follow the whole thread on the Wirmotorsports.com / bracket racing/ heads up at Wir. Heads up racers were getting bashed and I guess I hurt their feelings. Most didn't want to support you guys anyway. So relatives of relatives who had their feeling hurt will try to unload on me a bit. My response to that is "STFU and race, if you want to play politics, run for president." I'm not here to play games, I have better things to do. Mike

[1SLO5.0]

Realistically I don't see the difference if the car is checked or not unless you win and somebody contests it.


I guess that is when it really matters is when you win. But the rules are in place and the staff should be making sure they are followed from the start because that will eliminate alot of crying and cheating.

[1SLO5.0]

Read and follow the whole thread on the Wirmotorsports.com / bracket racing/ heads up at Wir. Heads up racers were getting bashed and I guess I hurt their feelings. Most didn't want to support you guys anyway. So relatives of relatives who had their feeling hurt will try to unload on me a bit. My response to that is "STFU and race, if you want to play politics, run for president." I'm not here to play games, I have better things to do. Mike


Oh, one of those deals. Yeah, I'm hated on the WIR site because I prefer heads up racing to bracket racing. I never bashed bracket racing, I just said I prefer to race heads up. I guess that makes me less of a human being. It seems nobody can just get along and race anymore. Bracket racers bitch about RSD and heads up racing. Don't go if you don't like it. Of course one guy will turn this into "that asshole said bracket racing sucks and bracket racers are losers" and then everyone will be pissed. I remember reading a post on WIR a while back where some fool said something to the effect of "why don't you go to the WSD site where they hate bracket racers". I thought that was funny considering there is a ton of bracket racers on this site.

[72NOVA]

I must have missed it also. :dunno:


GO TO WIRMOTORSPORTS.COM AND LOOK AT THE SAME THREAD IN THE FORUM THERE ABOUT HEADS UP RACING. READ IT AND YOU WILL SEE WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT

[1SLO5.0]

I guess I really didn't see anything offensive. The worst thing I seen was something about "crying and whining because that is what you guys do best". I might have missed something else, I'm not sure. That isn't a very harsh statement but this is the internet and it is so easy to get offended by something because you are reading it and not hearing it. There is a big communication difference between reading and hearing. People tend to forget that when communication on the internet. It just amazes me that there is so much tension between people who enjoy bracket racing and people who enjoy heads up racing. It creates so much conflict that I can hardly believe it. I started racing back in the 90s and drag racers were about the friendliest people I've ever encountered. Over the years things have changed though. Not just at WIR, every where. Its almost like the fun is being taken out of racing and being replaced with conflict. Most of us do this for a hobby, not for a living. Competetiveness is nice but if it causes conflict and hatred at the end of the day, was it really worth it?

[72NOVA]

I have no problem with the heads up racing or anyone who wants to do it I have a problem with Mike H and the way he treats people. When he makes comments to the poeple that put the benifit together for the Reiderer Family and asks why we started to organize it so soon after the accident since we didn't even know if he was going to live or not . What kind of a person says that if you wish to know more send me a pm with your # I would be glad to explain more to you. I have worked and raced at WIR and have many friends that race there and want to see the track continue to operate far into the future so bring on the heads up racing just leave Mike out .

[THE358BANSH]

I have no problem with the heads up racing or anyone who wants to do it I have a problem with Mike H and the way he treats people. When he makes comments to the poeple that put the benifit together for the Reiderer Family and asks why we started to organize it so soon after the accident since we didn't even know if he was going to live or not . What kind of a person says that if you wish to know more send me a pm with your # I would be glad to explain more to you. I have worked and raced at WIR and have many friends that race there and want to see the track continue to operate far into the future so bring on the heads up racing just leave Mike out .

If you have such a problem with the way Mike treats people, why don't you resolve it with him instead of **BITCHING** about it on this fine website. Last time I checked, this was a thread to see who was going to run this class. So sack up your shit and talk to the man, or just keep to yourself instead of crying like a little phucking schoolgirl...

[badass88gt]

LOL, I'm sitting here laughing my ass off after reading the WIR thread over there. Man, Dragmaster says something mean and a whole bunch of guys are butthurt over it. What a bunch of bitches.

[85 CAMARO]

I don't know where some of you guys are coming from. The first time I ever talked to Mike was when I called him in the middle of the afternoon about a month ago. He gave me (a total stranger) over a 1/2 hour of his time talking about all types of racing, chassis certification, and some of his travel around the country. He even offered to come in and do a chassis cert. for us on his day off. I noticed some of the bracket guys start to pucker up the minute Saturday's were mentioned, thats why I tried to push this thing to a Friday night. When the thread turned kinda nasty, Mike had every right to defend himself. :smoker:

[UPdragracer]

Just a FYI last summer I was told by someone other than a track official that I was lucky they let me race there !!!!
Kinda makes me wonder who some of those WIR regular racers think they are :chairshot

I just mind my own business have fun racin my junk . I also enjoy watching everyone else race as well .

I'm guessing some people need to chill out and relax , not to mention run their own program and stay the f--k out of other peoples crap :hehe:

[1fastdeuce]

I have no problem with the heads up racing or anyone who wants to do it I have a problem with Mike H and the way he treats people. When he makes comments to the poeple that put the benifit together for the Reiderer Family and asks why we started to organize it so soon after the accident since we didn't even know if he was going to live or not . What kind of a person says that if you wish to know more send me a pm with your # I would be glad to explain more to you. I have worked and raced at WIR and have many friends that race there and want to see the track continue to operate far into the future so bring on the heads up racing just leave Mike out .

No offense to anyone here, I don't judge a book by it's cover and I have no problem with you or Mike. Both of you guys have been very friendly and respectful to myself and the people with me at the track and I think personal issues should be dealt with via phone, in person or PM's. After reading the thread on WIR I didn't see anything brought up about the Reiderer family and if Mike did say something like that I would agree that it wasn't something that he should of said. IMO there is absolutely nothing wrong with helping other people out and I hope I have friends like the Reiderer family has that could help me if I were in a situation as he was. I give a big Props to you and your family Craig.

[Mike@The Race Shop]

I have no problem with the heads up racing or anyone who wants to do it I have a problem with Mike H and the way he treats people. When he makes comments to the poeple that put the benifit together for the Reiderer Family and asks why we started to organize it so soon after the accident since we didn't even know if he was going to live or not . What kind of a person says that if you wish to know more send me a pm with your # I would be glad to explain more to you. I have worked and raced at WIR and have many friends that race there and want to see the track continue to operate far into the future so bring on the heads up racing just leave Mike out .
I'm sorry to defend myself here and this is the last time I will speak on the subject here, it was only my intent to start something for the heads up guys and keep getting attacked by the WIR FAMILY, not management.

I will continue to support you heads up racers and continue to support the bracket racers realizing it is a very small group of individuals that seem to mock anything other than bracket racers.

Here goes --- Warning!!! This may be offensive to someone.

First of all Craig, get the facts right. While being asked to donate to the benefit for Tony Riederer, I asked your wife why a benefit was being organized so soon after the accident, before they knew what they were going to need and if anything and if

they had insurance. I thought that was a legitimate question when being asked to donate or help out. Nikky told me that because Tony was a finish carpenter that he didn't have any insurance and there was no income and they didn't have money for food and

they could loose the house without help. She asked if I was interested in donating to the benefit and I volunteered to provide the funds for the large raffle prize. Nikky and

I discussed several different similar options and I told her I would provide whatever would provide the most benefit to the family, and she could make the decision and just

call me with the amount. The prize was being purchased by someone else and would call me with the price. A few weeks passed and Nikky called me and said that the individual

who was purchasing the prize was going to donate it themselves. She then asked if I would pay for shirts for the staff who were working the benefit. I told her I didn't think

that was right to spend money on shirts when that money could otherwise go to help the family and I could not support that, I had already agreed to donate something, something that had

real benefit. I was not contacted again.

CraigI was going to let go, however you opened up this wound and with inaccurate and wrong info. Being you were not there and it could only have been told you by your wife, you

should not spread the inaccuracies figuring I wouldn't defend myself. This is too bad because all the good you tried to do will create hard feeling for someone no matter which

side someone takes.

Second, correct me if I am wrong. While at the banquet, the people at the far table had to be asked publically over the P.A. to stop throwing food around. This was at the

table where the Riederers were seated. Your family and some of the Riederers and others by them had to be asked not to throw food, the same food they could have used to

help feed the family was being thrown around; thrown around and they had to be asked to stop. Not twenty minutes after everyone was being asked to donate more money. How wasteful and

childish.

Now Im sure I'm not making any friends here and it is not my intent to hurt the Riederers as this was very serious, but to start something on another forum in retaliation for my

defending the right of other racers to race heads up, and use untruths to bolster your attack on me, has only served to hurt the Riederers more.

Its childish and irresponsible, if you want to attack me, I don't care, I have only tried to support Roger, WIR and you racers for the last several years even though I choose not to bracket race our car, but you hurt all racing at WIR making personal attacks with the erroneous information. I am guilt of continuing this, to defend the accusations

you made, and I will continue to try to get more racing at WIR. I understand you wont race anything I support or organize and I respect your wishes.

My apologies to those who think I offended them and still pledge my support for all racers at WIR.

Like I said, there will be no more from me on this subject on either site no matter who attacks.

[85 CAMARO]

Now......... "LET THE RACING BEGIN" (heads up) LOL

[72NOVA]

Mike,

I apoligize for my post , it was wrong of me to print that.


sorry
Craig